0:00
I can see a few familiar faces so welcome back to to our WEA members that
0:06
are regulars on this and welcome to a new audience as well I really hope that you enjoy this afternoon's webinar we're
0:12
going to be looking at some of the current issues both in terms of policy and practice in in adult learning we
0:18
were brought together for this last year we were invited by a journal called Forum to contribute to a special edition
0:25
on lifelong learning Forum usually deals with education for younger age groups so we're delighted to to have that new
0:32
audience and we brought together some of the authors that put chapters into into
0:37
that journal um and I'm delighted that they've they've spent the time and and are willing to contribute with us today
0:45
um it was November um when the the journal came out and I think we wrote Our chapters probably you know October
0:52
September October just after um the new government had been elected I'm not sure
0:57
we could have thought about the level of National and international change that we've seen since so again you know we'll
1:04
um I think some of the presentations have been adapted to to reflect that as well so a little later I'll speak about
1:11
the policy landscape and we'll get professor John Jonathan Mitch to um speak to us as well about links to
1:17
universities but first of all I'd like to start by introducing Dr Sharon Clancy
1:23
Sharon is the associate professor at the University of Nottingham specializing in post 16 and adult ed writing focuses on
1:31
class culture and social justice issues with a psychosocial and historical lens
1:37
Sharon was head of community engagement at the University of Nottingham between 2017 2007 and 2013 voluntary sector
1:45
leader before entering Academia um I think CEO of of Mansville Council for
1:51
voluntary services from 2000 to 2007 and chair of the Raymond Williams foundation
1:57
various other commissions as well but works for the purposes to this works with Dr Ian Jones who will be presenting
2:04
with Sharon um and since about 2020 as part of the Centenary Commission on
2:09
Adult Learning they've been running the um research circle on fostering
2:14
democracy debate and dialogue and and that emerged from the centinary commission and um Ian's also um a
2:23
lecturer at the University of Wales at Trinity St David So Sharon Ian thank you
2:30
you for for giving your time um this afternoon and I'll hand the floor to
2:41
you thank you very much that i' be uh looking forward to uh presenting so I'm
2:48
just gonna can everyone see my slides okay just opened up thank you yes we can
2:53
so our title today for the purpose of our talk is reconstructing adult
2:58
learning we're talking about the research Circle but we're also talking about our own relationship as the
3:05
conveners of the research Circle and and the kind of BL bluring if you like that
3:10
we find all the time between the personal and professional and between um
3:16
the the boundaries if you like between the market and the personal and the Humane and that's kind of our Focus for
3:23
the purpose of this talk and how we've if you like navigated some of those changes as part of our own experience
3:30
during the last four years of running the research Circle and Ian's going to
3:35
tell you a little bit more about that so just move us on thanks Sharon I mean uh I think we
3:43
we're both very conscious in terms of the time that we've uh that we've got so hopefully we're going to model this by
3:50
keeping two uh 50 minutes so just from my perspective um directly linking to
3:57
what Sharon has just said by at the end of the 15 minutes we hope that you're going to know more about not just the
4:02
research Circle itself and our activities but the value of that
4:08
research Circle and what we've really been doing is um in a whole range of
4:13
ways is thinking critically about our practices and the sort of tensions that
4:20
we will all recognize in different ways between hope and the conditions of work
4:28
and I think from my persp perspective and this links to what we've said in the article that um that Simon referred to
4:35
in the introduction one of our underpinning ideas and starting points
4:41
was the an individual and Collective sense of loss and a loss of policy
4:49
memory and the question really whether that and how that loss of policy memory
4:55
may relate to different forms of forgetting and and if people on the call today
5:03
recognize anything there around different forms of policy memory and forgetting a question that we're
5:11
interested in your perspectives on is whether that sense of loss and of
5:18
forgetting has actually produced missing or marginalized voices and and actually we recognized
5:26
that on the one hand we'd got that as a starting point in the spring uh Autumn abig bun of 2020 and there's actually if
5:34
we go to that next slide that Sharon um was just shown there a visual of the the
5:39
front page of yeah of the book on the left hand side and the Forum there's
5:45
actually in some sense there a kind of a tension between that sense of loss that
5:50
I spoke about that we began with in in some ways in um the Autumn of 2020 and
5:58
what we've been able to do through the book and the article and the research
6:03
circle is actually um generate with others what
6:09
we're going to talk about today which are examples of actually reconstructing
6:15
adult learning so these these kind of coexist they're not a binary of either
6:21
all they're actually intention and kind of coexist because there is in what
6:27
we're going to say an optimism around that
6:32
reconstructing through generating resources of Hope and um we want to talk
6:40
about that but first we thought it would be useful and if kind of Sharon is going to give some context to do with where
6:47
that began um in terms of the work that we're talking about today so we've got
6:53
that underlying tension when we began to meet as a group but that group itself
6:59
has got a recent and a historic context and I think the next two slides say
7:05
something about that so yeah thanks over to okay so something this is just to
7:10
give a bit of context to the evolution and development of the research Circle itself and I think it's fair to say that
7:17
um having been involved um in the centinary commission on adult education
7:22
from around 2018 myself um in that context as um in my relationship to the
7:29
Roman Williams foundation um it was a powerful drive to try and look back at
7:35
the seminor 1919 report on adult education which was an incredibly Rich document incredibly Community orientated
7:43
and driven sort a clearer role as well for the voluntary sector as well as the
7:48
state and saw an incredible importance for Community Driven adult education led
7:56
by numerous smallscale larger organizations but many of them Community
8:01
Based and this is something in the spirit of what Ian and I have tried to create through the research Circle so
8:07
I'll tell you in the next slide really about um the evolution of the research Circle directly so the centinary
8:15
commission uh undertook a a series of research meetings events workshops
8:20
throughout 2019 and that saw the development of the centinary commission
8:25
report in 2019 which you just saw um on the pre slide um and in as early as 2020
8:34
actually um we had a stiner commission Cooperative College event um which
8:39
looked obviously online at that time looked at the idea of developing some
8:44
mechanism for taking the centinary commission report recommendations forward um in the form of research that
8:53
are about the re kind of research that we need in the current crisis if you like if as we see it
9:00
um in the Democratic State particularly around social justice around Community
9:05
around economic and ecological issues that we're all being faced with and we
9:10
took it upon ourselves to develop um a research Circle which respond
9:16
corresponded to one of the key chapters in the centinary commission report around fostering Community democracy and
9:23
dialogue we started an initial round of meetings just to see who was interested
9:28
in really working along aside me in in in uh in 2020 and since that point we've had a
9:34
series of events um three each year all online up to the current day and I'll
9:40
say more about that a bit later but very quickly we had three events in
9:45
20121 um we started fairly small and then the network started to grow and we were getting between 50 sometimes even
9:53
close to 90 people on these calls and they started to develop an international life as well was tremendously exciting
10:02
most of us and all of us committed to adult education with a popular or more radical education lens that saw the
10:10
importance of community voice as being primary and that that was a space that was being increasingly lost through the
10:17
kind of NE developments in in University and education more widely and so this
10:23
has been our passion really from the start to create spaces for Hope if you
10:28
like and space basis for dialogue and we had our first series of events in 2021
10:34
and that specifically looked at communitybased resources for Hope what was left of community activism at that
10:41
point and we had presentations from various speakers the second series was around democracies in crisis looking at
10:48
ecology health and the environment and the role of the university and the third
10:53
last year was around uh sorry in 2023 was around diic learning that was
10:59
looking at the spaces local and National Developments around um State and
11:06
biological com dial dialogue with communities and then finally last year
11:11
we took a historical perspective looking backwards to try and Trace some of work
11:18
the um Evolution for example of workers education and the the role of
11:24
imagination and creative writing um as a space for people to look forward to the
11:29
Future and learn from history so I'm going to hand back to Ian now to tell us a bit more yeah I mean what we're going
11:36
to move on to actually in a minute is to look at a couple of examples through the research Circle events that that that
11:43
Sharon has um just given that that whole overview on but kind of woven through it
11:49
and think of people on the call one of the things to perhaps take away that we're really um Keen for for all of us
11:58
to going to think about both here today and in the future is the way that the
12:04
issues and the questions we're raising relate to our own practices so what we did is brought people together with us
12:11
to think critically about practice using Theory and this example from Jame Miller
12:18
back in 1995 an idea that I think is really productive for us all to think
12:24
about and it that will be related on the next slide is the autobiography of the
12:30
question and what shanon has already spoken about in the introduction the
12:35
interrelationship between the the personal the professional and the
12:41
political so so that idea of Jame Millers maybe if at the end we've got
12:47
references at the end of the presentation for you to kind of take away and perhaps do some more thinking
12:53
with individually and collaboratively and I think this is a really interesting idea that I think links to the next
13:01
slide where Sharon's going to give kind of an example of some of one of her own
13:06
presentations at one of the research Circle events and someone else who we've done work with in the past as well so
13:14
should we do that yeah yeah thanks so this is very much a couple of quite busy
13:20
slides so I just wanted to pick out a couple of key points from these so we've had some absolutely terrific
13:26
presentations from all kinds of different groups different voices over the course of the last four years and
13:34
one that I particularly remembered as being deeply powerful was from Inspire
13:40
oldum um This was um a women's center um in Alm at the time in
13:47
2022 and they were talking something about the need for Clear Community
13:53
messages how you can if you like take back power and and consider some of the
14:00
issues around power generally in terms of how old Power sometimes marginalizes
14:05
and limits communitybased work and particularly activism so I guess this is a a critical political message so as as
14:13
s said from the outset Inspire has been about Collective participation deemphasizing the role of traditional
14:21
hierarchies and she goes on to say that um old power is held by a few and once
14:27
gained it's guarded it tends to be closed it's inaccessible so they're interested in Inspire um in external
14:35
interactions with policy makers being often in the form of these old Power structures so what they want to do is
14:42
try and challenge that because she as she said the best description I ever heard of this kind of scenario she kept
14:48
encountering was that it's like being invited to a party and then being told what to do so much needs to change here
14:56
in terms of relocation of power and I think this was absolutely crucial for us
15:02
um myself and Liz Holt spoke in uh 2024 about the importance of imagination in
15:08
the education of adults and how so often we were seeing that Stripped Away in skills-based structures um the the
15:15
current contemporary focus on skills the exclusion of almost all um what we might
15:22
consider the broader humanistic understanding of adult education which has so inspired us so there's the whole
15:28
point about um how we manage precarity and complexity of this contemporary world how we celebrate some of the older
15:37
um models of education and intellectual Traditions so we started to do that
15:42
through our own Reflections on History um we talked about class we talked about
15:47
my relationship with my grandmother Liz talked about the relationship with her mother and we started to try and find
15:53
ways of finding a voice and this is crucially what this really our whole Reflections been about how do we give
16:00
voice to those most marginalized in in society particularly when many of those
16:05
adult education Roots um and mechanisms have been are under threat um and I kind of move on from
16:13
that so we've used let Raymond Williams's work and clearly I'm quite committed to that as chair of Raymond
16:18
Williams foundation but he he deeply influenced my own writing and thinking and I'm really passionate about this
16:25
idea of of resources for a journey of how how we work collaboratively and communally to try and seek some form of
16:32
emancipation particularly when so much around us is damaged we're seeing so
16:38
much um um of a kind of centralization um self-management is
16:44
something that Raymond Williams really pushed for and the idea of how we learn from past labor and historical struggles
16:52
to bring that resilience into the present day to try and escape the turbulence all around us it's kind of of
16:59
you know that gives us hope and some stability learning from the past to inform the present and shape the future
17:07
so um that's my point really about uh resources for a journey of Hope which is
17:12
important in Raymond Williams work the long re Revolution over to yeah and and I think
17:20
I mean this is just a very brief connection and point that the those two
17:25
contemporary examples kind of embody that classic idea of C Mills is in terms
17:32
of the sociological imagination about that interrelationship between private
17:38
private troubles and public issues and that and that and threaded through the
17:43
work that we've done alongside and with and learning from those particular
17:50
examples that that Sharon has spoken about is is that sense which in turn
17:58
related to when we we stood back and looked at some of our own work the this
18:04
is very brief and that you can follow the references um at the end this idea
18:10
of a collaborative autoethnography what would' highlight there is Cleveland and Grant who've got um draw on Jay
18:18
Griffith's idea about what um she referred to as wild and tamed time so
18:27
this why this kind of um juer position between the different
18:32
time that we work with that in turn relates to some of Lynden West's writing
18:39
and Lyndon is a key member of the research Circle um and lynon's work
18:46
alongside others and the the article that's at the end gives a really deep
18:54
overview of the work he's done with others and lots of that pivots around that idea of how life stories relate to
19:03
life histories so that you know understanding individual experiences has to be seen in that Collective sense and
19:11
that in turn I think there's a really interesting article by Judith saxs which
19:16
is about the activist professional that talks about the tension between
19:22
Democratic and managerial forms of professionalism and a lot of the ways
19:28
when we first began was actually working with alongside and through those sort of
19:35
tensions to actually produce work ourselves so those are examples of how
19:41
we've used Theory to think about um practice but this links back to the um
19:49
the personal and how the personal has a collective sense Sharon do you want to say yeah just something about that
19:56
exactly that point that that the just been making that we've found it impossible to literally carve out to
20:04
literally split off our personal professional selves We've Ended up through the the research Circle it's an
20:10
intense experience it requires you your whole Humanity bringing your whole
20:16
Humanity to the situation and the people we've we've identified here um in the
20:22
top right hand corner is my closest friend Julie who died um on December
20:27
31st 202 too um my dad um at Ruskin
20:32
College um in in the middle who I also lost and Ian's mom um John Field who you
20:39
might recognize those of you in the B bottom right hand corner and um our dear
20:45
friend Nigel who who was so important to us in terms of um working really through
20:51
the lens of Raymond Williams he worked closely with us in so many different ways in the research Circle in the early
20:58
days so we've kind of got the professional and the personal here and these people have all been influential
21:04
um important to us in terms of both loss and memory but also in reimagining what
21:10
might be possible and remembering what's important historically from their own work so uh Nigel Todd sorry I didn't say
21:18
his surname and just to move on quickly this is our conclusion so our aim today
21:24
really is to make visible the collaborative work that we've been doing over the last four years is to really
21:29
foreground the friendship that Ian and I have fostered the intensity of the collaborate collaborative work the real
21:35
depth that we've had to get into with the research Circle and the way that we've tried to find ways of bringing
21:42
community-based research right to the front um in a in a world which makes it
21:47
very difficult to do that and how we're trying to find ways of bringing the value of theory to inform action through
21:54
our own reading thinking and research but we're very keen and committed to seeing that actively engage with at
22:02
Community level and never losing that community space and we're keen today in
22:08
the in the 10 minutes after our presentation to hear from anybody who's interested in our work but particularly
22:14
to find out if people think themselves that there is there are missing voices if you like from this practice and
22:20
research that we've identified how do we find ways of widening contributions when
22:25
it's getting harder uh to find Space for this this kind of collaborative approach
22:31
so this is something of a call for Action we're really Keen to collaborate with others our networks grown to over
22:38
200 um um in the research Circle they don't always come to every single event some attracts others um some attract
22:46
some some attract others but we're we're keen to see um to to remain available to
22:52
people as a kind of wild space a space where we can still think and Challenge
22:57
and still kind of bring that activist lens to bear as as Ian alluded to earlier on um within the constraints of
23:05
quite a managerial um kind of system that we're all living in so finally
23:11
we're keen to see um your engagement with us if you're interested our
23:16
research Circle Network um these are our email addresses and I'm sure this information will be made available to to
23:23
you uh please join the network if you're interested we've got two events this year we usually have three but that's
23:29
because the second one will be actually in person for the first time ever and will be in Wales and this year we're
23:36
celebrating arts and creativity and our first event online we'll be focusing on
23:42
um Stoke itself and research relating to stoke but particularly with an Arts
23:48
based focus and lens finally as Ian said we've got the references at the end
23:54
thank you very much thank you well yeah thank you Sharon thank you Ian
24:01
um great you know great presentation and on that theme that you can't separate
24:07
personal from from professional for me really poignant to see Nigel's image
24:13
Nigel Todd's image there who was part of my personal journey through from The Cooperative College to the WEA and I'll
24:19
be forever grateful to him for that so you know thank you for for remembering
24:25
Nigel Todd many of the waa members on this call will will have fun memories of Nigel as well um we're happy to take
24:33
some immediate questions and I think there's a question in the chat from David Senor that I'll I'll relate to you if that's okay Sharon and but also
24:40
please save those questions up for what we hope will be a panel session at the end including the the speakers that
24:46
you'll hear from and also two other colleagues that have joined us Sila Ross and John hulford so we're hoping that
24:52
they they may join the the panel session I'm hoping that's not too much of a surprise for Sila let just join the car
24:58
V um you know we we'll we'll try and make sure that we leave time for that as well so Sharon Ian David's question is
25:05
um it's titled community activities sometimes the wrong people make decisions about what the community wants
25:11
or needs the elderly and the younger not so mobile and rely on community so often
25:17
decisions may be made by those who work in the city and socialize in the city and only spend limited time in in the
25:24
community so how do we surface that voice of of you know that in generational Vice I think is the
25:29
question both the elderly and and the young having equal viices in this as as opposed to those of of working age yeah
25:38
I think that's an excellent question I don't know whether ear wants to respond but just a quick response straight away
25:43
um one of the things I'm myself interested in and I know in is is the
25:48
way that we forget so much of the way that policies um developed by people who
25:54
make policy and often have forgotten entirely what it means to live and be within a community and we're more and
26:01
more interested in trying to kind of really push that to the front I think we've tried to Forefront that myself and
26:08
Ian through the research Circle we're really trying to kind of um show what
26:13
that for what it is that that kind of connection has been lost quite often and people have forgotten how to engage at
26:19
Community level it's often a consultation exercise which many of you will recognize I know I do and that
26:26
consultation does not get to the heart of community need at all so we like to
26:32
feel that we can at least provide some kind of space where we can talk um and
26:37
and offer a space for for people to talk about exactly those issues I think that is an absolute you
26:45
know uh it's a recurring dilemma that isn't it around um you know who gets
26:50
invited to the table who gets and who gets to speak and I mean I think what one of the things that we've struggled
26:57
with um and John on the call here John Holford will Riley smile and recognize this is it I'm thinking of our web the
27:04
the website that we've used to try and record uh through often using blogs
27:13
examples of particular practice and what I'm saying isn't this you know none of
27:18
these are kind of Magic Bullets but I'm reminded that um this week I met with an
27:23
Arts group an Arts organization um near where I live and and they have got a
27:29
fairly small amount of Lottery funding to do precisely what has been
27:37
spoken about is reviewing and recording their
27:42
activity over the last 105 uh years they're an organizations that's been set up for 25 years but
27:48
they're interested in that sense of the history of what they've done this is an Arts organization that does lots of they
27:54
wouldn't necessarily recognize that what they're doing is adult learning in many ways but it's informal Grassroots work
28:02
that does do precisely what has been spoken about about intergenerational learning and they've got National
28:08
Lottery funding for a three-year project which at the heart of it is going to be
28:13
oral history is going to be digital archives and so on so the link back to
28:19
the blog is this idea that I think that what if what we can do and this is a
28:25
perennial challenge isn't it is log and record examples that people can draw on
28:33
not to go back to that notion uncritically of what works but think
28:40
about and look at examples and think well how could this actually relate to our own setting and through learning
28:45
from others what could we do and that's what that project's going to be about is
28:50
actually very much listening to the voices of both young people and others
28:56
who have been involved in those projects and I think that is a key aspect of what we need to do which isn't the
29:02
reinvention of the new you that the idea that everything we
29:08
start with a blank page you know what we need to do is be thinking about how can we learn about practice and I think for
29:15
me that does relate back to that point about forgetting and Amnesia and
29:21
institutional on these here and I think there's a lot to be done there about the use of creative methods to rec C
29:29
activity which might help with that dilemma that's been shown about um
29:35
intergenerational learning because I think there's so much Rich practice out there that ought to be recorded and
29:41
people should work with as a result yeah no thank you thanks thanks
29:47
again Sharon and and Ian we've got a couple of questions coming through in the chat as well and a couple of comments I'm going to roll those into
29:54
the panel session if I may towards the end because I want to make sure that we we have enough time for for the the
29:59
presentations and that panel session so speaking last I will definitely make sure I cut mine short and and and allow
30:06
time for those questions so if people would just bear with us on that that'd be great and just on your um your point
30:13
Sharon about your research Circle going International I think from the chat and we're joined by Helen from Nigeria so I
30:21
don't know if that's one of your um your research Circle members but Helen you you're um welcome welcome to the call
30:29
it's it's great you can be here so I'm going to move on on if I may and I'm going to introduce um Professor Jonathan
30:35
mck Jonathan is Professor of innovation and knowledge exchange at the University of Oxford he's also Pro Vice Chancellor
30:42
there and he's president of Kellog College Jonathan's also the chair of the University Association for lifelong
30:49
learning and was co- secretary to the centinary commission that we've just heard about on adult learning from from
30:55
Sharon and Ian so Jonathan again massive thank you for giving up your time and and and spending this this session with
31:02
us and I'll give you the floor great thanks very much and um I to send some through through some
31:09
slides if they could be shown great thanks very much and I
31:15
realized the one one thing I forgot to do is put my email address on there because I'm going to mention a couple of Publications which um should be
31:22
available just by Googling them but in case you uh want to get them and and can't find them by Googling
31:28
do email me and I can send them to you um so my email address is jonathan.
31:34
Mickey so you got my name there jonathan. Mickey at
31:39
Kellog do a um Ox for Oxford and then
31:45
ac.uk I just tried to put in the chat but my computer's broken and won't won't do this the at sign but do email me J.M
31:53
atcog ac.uk if you want any of the things I refer to so thank you very much indeed U the wa for this uh kind
32:01
invitation very honored to to get a chance to um speak um I'm I'm going to talk about uh
32:10
yeah universities how we can try and get universities to pay more attention to to lifelong learning and engage with wa and
32:17
and others um I mean universities are in crisis but then who isn't nowadays um we
32:24
seem to be facing a um a number of crises obviously the climate crisis has been mentioned there there was a
32:31
pandemic and the risk of uh of future such pandemic seems to be increasing
32:36
democracy um sh's already referred to as in crisis we've got military conflicts we got increased inequalities of income
32:43
wealth geography and power um so it's sometimes said that we're living in unprecedented a time of
32:50
unprecedented crisis um i' say if if um there ever was a president in in Britain
32:58
it would have been the first world war and the difference was then the government actually established a
33:04
Ministry for reconstruction to Think Through how you do get out of these sort
33:09
of multiple crises and probably the most important and impactful thing that
33:14
Ministry for reconstruction did was to publish the 1919 report on adult education that uh
33:23
that Sharon mentioned and the importance of that which concluded that to get to these crisis depended crucially on on
33:30
education and adult education available to all throughout life lifelong learning
33:36
um the importance of that argument was such that a group of people mentioned by
33:42
uh led by Nigel Todd who's been mentioned um gathered to to create a coalition with the wa the the um
33:49
cerative college and others to uh think through that 1919 report uh for today
33:56
and that was the the centinary commission that uh Sharon was a commissioner on and indeed Siller who's
34:03
uh joined was another commissioner on that and I had the honor of being asked to be co- secretary along with John
34:09
Holford who I think is going to join the panel at the end and John who you know edited the special issue of forum on
34:18
reconstruction reconstructing adult education for the common good which is what this uh this um panel is all about
34:26
um as you can see me as the uh the centinary commission and that's
34:32
available free of charge at www. centinary
34:37
commission.org and you can download read and download the whole publication there as well as access a lot of the other
34:44
material including on the research circles that we've uh just been hearing
34:50
about to to implement uh that that um commission the the report of the
34:55
centinary commission which basically said that the the conclusions of the 1919 report were as valid as ever and
35:02
that that um as much as ever we need adult education available to all on a
35:08
lifelong learning basis and for similar reasons as we said in 1919 even then
35:14
they said um firstly there were new technologies on the horizon so it was no good just training today's workers in
35:21
today's skills we needed people with um a Workforce with educational capabilities to be able to deal with new
35:29
technologies as they emerged that they' hadd never seen before secondly they said there would big debates had to be
35:34
had you know around War and Peace now be climate change um and thirdly still
35:40
relevant unfortunately is the electorate was being extended at the time and so they
35:45
said education was vital for um the health of democracy not just educating
35:51
on particular topics housing transport education whatever might be being debated but education so that we all had
36:02
critical skills to be able to weigh up evidence um evaluate arguments and they
36:08
said even then to distinguish between on the one hand genuine political argument
36:15
from on the other hand demagogy and the centinary commission said for all those reasons ad's
36:21
education lifelong learning is more important than ever and that was argued uh very effective L I think for
36:28
forcefully in a a Manifesto for lifelong learning which was published jointly by
36:34
that adult education 100 campaign at the universities Association for lifelong
36:39
learning that I'm chair of and the National Education opportunities Network and again I'd be very happy to send that
36:46
to anyone who's uh who's interested um in it um partly to to try and move that uh
36:54
forward and put pressure on the the government to actually um take knowledge of take uh um account
37:02
of these arguments and actually uh promote adult education and lifelong learning as well as to try to get
37:09
universities to engage with the wa and others um more effectively there's a
37:17
project um being run at the moment uh that I'm leading which uh a report on
37:22
now that some initial results has not been finalized yet has not been launched but um I can report some initial results
37:29
of a project which is um looking at how to make lifelong learning central two
37:35
University strategy and that's what this uh slide is showing now uh is about uh
37:42
the survey got responses from more than 10,000 um Learners uh
37:48
globally um and actually we can go on to the next next slide which is the the first question which was asked is is why
37:56
would you we most like to learn understandably a lot of people are interested in in getting a job or
38:02
getting um promotion um but you'll see that the fourth highest response was um
38:08
enjoyment of the subject and there's a whole range of reasons people gave for
38:13
wanting to learn um and second slide we could go on to is what would you want
38:19
from a a learning provider and you know you recognize these are is all good reasons but uh good things people are
38:27
people would look for if they they want uh um courses education and good value
38:34
good value for money is um unsurprisingly at the top although obviously the the second is quite
38:41
closely related to that about having quality you know not just um pre
38:47
although that's the third one offers some some pre or very uh lowcost programs and then the ne the next slide
38:54
please ask actually which providers um would you uh would you want to use and
39:00
um encouragingly for universities which is useful for those of us who are trying to get universities to to take this
39:07
agenda seriously and and change encouragingly they are mentioned by people even though there's a whole range
39:14
of um uh other providers people are engaged with now in retrospect probably
39:21
slightly unfairly uh I suggest I I asked them to add in the wa's potential
39:26
provider um which only got 1% um uh response rate and the reason is this is
39:32
a a global uh survey so most of the people to be honest would have uh um never heard of that but um we'll drill
39:39
this is these are initial results so we can drill down to um the respondents from um the UK also you seen at the
39:46
beginning um almost 40% of these people have have got degrees where that might might be less relevant but then we on to
39:54
focus on universities because like I say I'm hoping this will provide ammunition for those of us who are trying to get
39:59
universities to change um to say um why would you use
40:05
universities uh and um good news potentially you know for universities is
40:11
is they were acknowledged for the sorts of things universities would want to be acknowledged for of um developing um
40:18
knowledge having um good quality uh faculty uh teaching and so on but then
40:24
the next slide asks why you wouldn't use us is why you'd go elsewhere and by far
40:30
the biggest one was they were um too expensive which is obviously a um something universities need to do about
40:37
but also government needs to do something about if they actually want the skills Revolution they're talking about and want universities to um be
40:44
involved in that um actually the second question is quite uh interesting and
40:50
again potentially useful for people like me who want universities to change because it uh it's it's the universities
40:56
and colleges is only offer degrees um not short courses which actually um is
41:03
mistaken because a lot of um universities do offer Shore courses and it it's clear
41:09
they're not doing as good a job as they should at uh communicating
41:15
that um and then going on to the next slide uh people were asked about what
41:20
what um should universities do um and again it's offer more flexibility
41:26
provide um clearer uh Roots all the sort of uh things I'm sure we would all agree
41:33
they actually should do um and then finally on the Learners they were asked about uh um why would they want to to do
41:42
more education um this is you know slightly repeating
41:47
that that that first slide understandably people were interested in in jobs and their um careers but also um
41:55
there's a high response to all these things which includes when they start working they' want to take courses for
42:00
pleasure and um I expect to learn foreign
42:06
enjoyment the next slide reports that employers were also asked now obviously
42:12
they're they're interested in the world of work so we have to accept that we're only looking at a narrow uh Focus for
42:18
these and we' got more than a thousand respon responses again um
42:25
internationally uh the next slide shows what they want which is not surprisingly
42:30
improved productivity efficiency um being able to introduce new technology
42:36
Al that introducing new technology uh is worth reflecting on given what I said
42:42
was argued in 1919 and again in 2019 in the original report on adult education
42:49
and then on the centinary commission which is just training today's workers in today's skills isn't sufficient you
42:56
you need a Workforce which when new technologies people have never come across before emerge you've got a um a
43:03
Workforce that's a got the capabilities and the capacity to to um think about
43:09
how um we can get the best they can get the best from um those new technologies
43:14
and there's a further important Point actually which uh needs to be made to government and
43:20
employers which is that it's very um well established that the effectiveness
43:26
of a new technologies is not technologically determined it depends
43:31
very much on um the workforce who who then engage with the new technologies and how well they uh understand it how
43:39
they how well how much they accept it um whether they whe they're possibly looking for ways to to uh ensure that it
43:47
works effectively and so forth um then we went on to ask the employers about uh
43:54
who they use as providers um clearly they they often use their own
44:00
private training providers but but even they um also used universities and
44:05
colleges um quite a bit uh came third
44:12
um then uh asked about why why they used
44:18
universities it was because they have got a a good reputation
44:24
um sorry I'm I to syn those one on the um
44:30
slide um that's right offers good value sorry offers good value um courses um
44:37
but then reasons for using universities were they they do have a good reputation
44:42
for developing um knowledge um and the next one next slide shows that they they
44:48
use private trading providers but also universities did come third um the next
44:55
slide was asking why they wouldn't use universities which is interesting since they say they're too sort of theoretical
45:02
was the main one so universities do have a a job to you know a communication job
45:08
there um and then the final the final uh slide um gives details of the annual
45:14
conference coming up of the University Association for lifelong learning and its standing committee on University
45:20
teaching and research and the education of adults scotria um where this project
45:25
will be U presented and debated and I do hope as many of you as possible be able to um join us there hosted by the
45:33
University of Liverpool so um as I say if you want the any of those
45:41
um Publications I mentioned do email me email me if you can't find them just by
45:46
um Googling um and I just conclude by by saying that I think the results of this
45:53
project while as I say it's an early stage and the interview haven't been um conducted yet does show I think
46:01
powerfully that if the the government is to uh achieve the its missions and it
46:08
its goals it is it will require um adult education lifelong learning um and uh as
46:16
the manifesto for adult education argued that that needs crucially two things first it does need the government
46:22
nationally to commit and and provide resources but it requires the education
46:28
to be delivered on the ground very much along uh the lines described in the previous presentation with what the
46:35
centinary uh commission called educational Partnerships between um
46:41
universities and colleges with local government with employers and with the wa uh and other providers so I'll finish
46:49
there and look forward to the discussion thank you very much oh thank you Jonathan um really
46:56
really good and and lots of supportive comments in in the chat as well um a long comment from nman who's one of our
47:02
WEA members you know um recognizing the work of Raymond Williams and recognizing the need to to join this all up with
47:09
with University so fantastic sort of comments there and also thank you thank you for setting the um the challenge to
47:15
the WEA in our plan for world domination you know if we can move that from 1% you
47:21
know to 5% 10% then you know we'll we'll give it a good goal so um just let me
47:27
check and see um yeah I think the other the other questions that are coming in are probably um good for the the panel
47:34
session at the end and we will have time for that so again everybody on the call I'd encourage you to to sort start
47:40
thinking about you know those general questions you've heard two of the presentations now I'm going to give you a a sort short overview of where I think
47:48
we're up to in terms of the policy landscape and then please start those start those questions coming in I'm
47:53
going to ask Chris Butcher and um Maran to sort almost feed those questions into
47:58
the into me and the panel at the end so you got plenty of time to to have a think about that
48:04
now so yeah if if I try and wrap around where I think we are in terms of a
48:10
policy landscape maybe just a 10 15 minutes maybe and and and then lead that time for for the panel session as we
48:17
said right at the beginning of this you know we were pleased that the Forum had asked us to to produce a chapter for for
48:24
that journal and we we were writing that so soon after the election of of the new government that you know we thought it
48:30
was a great opportunity I mean I think the saying is it's you know a week is a long time in politics well you know it
48:37
feels like you know a lifetime ago that we were writing that that chapter So for
48:42
anybody that did get a chance to read that chapter I think the overview you're going to get now is is potentially a
48:48
little bit different because I think you know we couldn't really have have understood or foreseen the amount of
48:55
domestic and International change that that that we have seen so I think what
49:01
stayed the same for me and and I would say this is that you know I continue to believe and I think almost everybody on
49:07
this call will will be the same that adult education adult learning continues to be vital for the health of our
49:14
society and that even in challenging times you know the overwhelming um
49:19
majority of adult education providers continue to deliver high quality and impactful services despite years of
49:26
underfunding and that's that's backed up by you know much research and and much of the inspection framework as well so
49:33
we know that adult education it provides support for those needing you know essential skills we also know the the
49:40
really positive health and well-being impact through participating in learning
49:46
we see that every year in our impact report we we speak to over a thousand Learners and and they tell us that um
49:54
and but we also know that it's providing as Sharon and Jonathan have both alluded to you know increasingly a key product
50:02
is is to protect democracy to build community cohesion and and to help
50:08
create Civil Society you know it is as relevant today as it was in in 1919 so
50:14
that social justice role is as important as ever and part of what we've been doing and and and this is new since we
50:21
wrote the the chapter is we've launched a strand of work that's focusing on on
50:27
misinformation and disinformation we've seen we've seen in the UK over the last
50:32
summer how that can divide communities you know and and unless everybody you
50:38
know UPS skills and and has the skills to spot and and understand that this is this is a thing that misinformation and
50:45
disinformation is is driving some of this then you know we're going to see those Community divisions so we're
50:51
trying to support people to understand you know what sources they can trust and and how they develop their own critical
50:57
thinking you know let's just you know let's just think through for ourselves you know whether whether we think that's
51:03
right or not we're also growing our work and we're see an increased sort of
51:08
growth in in our work with refugees and Asylum Seekers and we're expecting the need for that and demand for that to
51:16
grow in the coming years obviously supporting with with English as an
51:21
additional or a second language but also you know supporting people with um you
51:26
have very practical skills really including things like the driving test Theory so you know just helping people
51:33
really sort of develop those essential skills take their own experiences from their home country bring them to the UK
51:40
and help them integrate into our communities so hope both of those are
51:46
examples of how the we curriculum yes is still responding to our local community
51:52
need in England and Scotland but also how it's aligning you know those more
51:57
Global needs and and I think that's right and I think our planning needs to focus on that wider Horizon you know as
52:04
Jonathan shown through that International um study you know this is you know this further Horizon is there
52:11
and we need to understand that given the S scale of that and given
52:17
the sense of that we we're doing this at a time when the funding and policy environment in the UK keeps getting
52:23
smaller I mean years of underfunding have left the old overall adult education budget adult skills budget
52:30
it's around 40% smaller now than it was in 2010 and that's something that we we
52:36
trying to convince um treasury of in our um as we submit evidence ahead of the
52:42
compartive spending review you know and even now on top of of that historic
52:48
underinvestment in the sector just recently over over the last few weeks
52:53
and it's and it's not been um it's not been made public in a in a very joined
52:59
up way and and and I think that's you know interesting is that the Department of Education have asked the maral
53:06
combined authorities across England to find two to 3% Cuts in the adult skills
53:11
fund next year we're only months away from understanding what that means for
53:17
for adult education providers across both the devolved and the nonevolved areas and we still no Clarity on that
53:25
you know absolutely no Clarity whether our funding will get cut by 3% or not so
53:30
you know it's really really sort of tricky times I think and all of that was before the prime minister's announcement
53:37
on um additional defense spending and all of that's you know ahead of the the comprehensive spending review in June so
53:45
I think really challenging times you know we understand that it'll be a tight
53:50
and and really difficult spending review but the case I think we've all got to make and and there will be that call to
53:56
action that that Sharon talked about I think there is is a role for us all to play in this is is making policy makers
54:04
understand that adult education adult learning is both an economic and a
54:10
societal good you if you think about for you know the relatively small investment
54:15
that the government make into an adult skills fund it creates savings to the Health Service we see this it helps
54:22
people you know reduce the um welfare benefits it provides countless hours of
54:28
of volunteering and Community Building higher tax returns for those people that get to petate better paid jobs and a
54:36
positive impact on future Generations as parents learn to support their children better with the the school work and we
54:44
call that the ripple effect of of adult learning and I think it's important that we carry on trying to make that case and
54:52
and make sure that a mission Le government that the government's plan
54:57
for change can only be fulfilled can only be successful if adult learnings at
55:03
the center of it again we're back to Jonathan's analogy of postor War I you
55:08
know where is that centralized Ministry of reconstruction where is that centralized lifelong learning strategy
55:16
that actually could help the government meet you know its missions and its plan for
55:21
change at present the funding for for adult learning as you you know sits most mostly with the department for education
55:28
and now with the mayoral combined authorities and we would expect that to be the mainstream going forward but
55:35
actually if we think about this Mission Le government and we think about the wider benefits then actually if there
55:40
are health benefits to adult learning what's stopping the Department of Health supporting that through social
55:47
prescribing you know if this is about getting people those that want to work into work or into better paid jobs and
55:53
we already work with with the DWP on projects in job centers actually could
55:59
they grow that as part of these ambitious reforms for the new jobs and career service and how does that overlap
56:05
with existing you know adult education provision and adult learning provision you know also there's there's
56:12
a big push from the Department for culture media and support around you know the um cultural learning and and
56:19
reembedding cultural learning across the UK so again what is that Department's um
56:26
ability to step up and and think through and perhaps fund some of this we've also
56:32
seen a cross government plan very recently talking about digital inclusion action plan so that's almost addressing
56:39
the the poor digital skills that exist in the country through a national program in the same way the previous
56:46
Government tried to address um numeracy skills through multiply so again what
56:51
does that mean and what will adult learning providers surely they've got a key part to playing that so actually the
56:59
point I'm trying to make is in tough Economic Times and in a tough spending um review it can't be down to just one
57:07
government part department to to fund adult skills if they're that important to Mission Le government then where's
57:14
the joint flexible budgets where's the spe specific targeting programs that we
57:20
can you know make sure that and help that um government join that up and I
57:26
think that does need a lifelong learning strategy yes there's devolved decision making yes people will take local
57:32
decisions but I think that's got to be in a framework that you know actually makes sense for you know for for society
57:41
as a whole you know and and I would say across the UK wherever we can do that with the the other devolved governments
57:47
as well it would help also that if if you
57:53
know government and and the mayor will combin authorities recognize that the best way of doing this and it's it's a
57:59
bit to Sharon's point about that the difference between personal and and market and professional you know this
58:05
this approach that says the best way of securing adult learning is through competitive contracts is through a
58:11
tendering and a procurement system is it's it becomes linked to two narrow
58:17
outcomes and it ties up organizations in you know that bureaucracy of having to
58:22
have a capacity to win contracts and that takes money away from from the
58:27
Direct Delivery into the community so I think there's a real issue about how we commission you know this type of work
58:34
going forward and and the government realizing that grant funding to a range of organizations this isn't just a a
58:41
special pleading for the WEA you know there's you know we've got to understand whether we think the marketization of
58:47
education is is is good or bad and I think we a number of us would have a view on this call that it's not helpful
58:54
so fully joining that or making sure that we do protect in the in this
58:59
conversation tailored learning as it's called now so that's our cultural learning that's our community learning
59:05
as we know it and it's still important that people are offered access to the Arts Humanities alongside those
59:12
essential skills and skills for work and we will keep making the case for that
59:17
the government's big initiative and we we only only knew sort of very very little about it at the time it was in
59:23
their Manifesto there's a little bit more been um released since but not much their big initiative here was skills
59:30
England is skills England we've had some clarity now on how they're going to um
59:35
who's going to chair skills England who the chief exec but we're still waiting to see how the board of skills England
59:41
will be made up and we're still waiting to see whether it will have enough um
59:46
Power or enough for one of a better word it's a technical work to actually work
59:51
across government departments because it's going to be situated solely in DS Fe rather than as an independent body so
59:58
we look forward to hearing more we were encouraged their initial report and it's the only report that we've seen so far
1:00:06
and included a number of paragraphs talking about essential skills and talking about upskilling people and if
1:00:12
you think that there's still nine million people in the UK lacking sufficient confidence in English maths
1:00:19
or digital then that's that's a big job you know it is a big job for skills England to try and get get hold of that
1:00:27
so as I say I want to leave plenty of time for for the the panel session so I
1:00:32
I'll leave you with a couple of thoughts really you know that government's growth Miss growth Mission as I say I I don't
1:00:39
think you know that will be tackled unless they put skills right at the heart of that again back to that that um
1:00:47
piece that Jonathan was saying post 1919 as well I think those who leave school
1:00:52
with low or no qualifications tend to be those never WR into learning and we've got to find a way of do of improving
1:00:59
that you know so that we've got long-term sustainable inclusive growth here so that actually we don't end up
1:01:06
with more left behind or kept behind communities that actually that growth
1:01:11
and that mission L government you know is there for everybody and we know that they usually find support in in
1:01:18
community adult learning venues their accessible venues their familiar venues they're close to where people live so
1:01:26
we're still two months out before the comprehensive spending review and we know that the discussions with treasury will be going on right till the last
1:01:32
minute and we are worried you know we're worried about you know Cuts you know further cuts to adult learning you know
1:01:39
it feels undervalued it feels often overlooked and and it's off the radar so my call to action as same as
1:01:48
you know Sharon's was is we'd encourage you to help to raise the profile to speak to your local MPS to write to
1:01:54
combined Authority Mayors to engage Eng in with any policy makers you can we put
1:01:59
an advocacy pack together for our WEA members and we we're happy to share that wider as well and we'll probably talk
1:02:06
about a couple of links to to the waa website at the end of of this session
1:02:12
but I think it's right I think we should all be pushing back any any single one of us on this call that's benefited from
1:02:19
from Adult Learning tell your story tell tell your story put that personal um
1:02:25
lens on it that Sharon and E were talking about and and be proud and and help us be proud of of the difference
1:02:32
the the adult learning makes so I'll pause there Chris I I
1:02:38
don't know whether there was any I wasn't looking at the chat as I was I was doing that presentation I don't know again with the other speakers whether
1:02:44
there's any immediate questions that I can pick up here and then or whether we
1:02:49
go straight to the panel session and get the others involved as well um I would suggest Simon going to the pan there's
1:02:56
some really good sort of General discussion points there that I think the panel and and other participants will
1:03:02
really enjoy getting into so John and Siller if you're around we can unmute
1:03:10
you sry yep so we've got yeah we'll have Sharon Jonathan and Ian we we'll try and
1:03:17
make sure that um we can unmil un unmute John and Sila you know Sila who are you
1:03:24
know close friend and exol once we unmute s then we we're right into it then we we'll be right right into a
1:03:31
really Lively and good good panel session so Marian I'll just give you a second to do
1:03:37
that sorry I just want to check we've got two sillers on the call so I wasn't sure which one to unmute um oh that's
1:03:44
that's a good question Mar no s Ros is the person oh and the other Siller will
1:03:50
be one of our wa members I know who the other Siller is as well I think it's brilliant to have another Silla in my
1:03:56
life I've met about three hello Silla here we go we're off to a flying
1:04:02
start s's off you we're off to a flyer and did you say there a John as well
1:04:08
sorry John okay let me okay I'll do that then thank you lovely thanks Maran
1:04:13
thanks Maran um I'm gonna try and pick out some of the questions from the chat I might have to sort of you know
1:04:19
summarize and and condense some of these but um there was a a point coming up a
1:04:25
couple of times about do do the panel feel that the government or policy
1:04:30
makers more generally really get adult learning is there a kind of will is
1:04:35
there an understanding about what adult education is and can do uh or is there
1:04:41
still a kind of explanation that's
1:04:48
required anybody wants to start from the panel I will go second I I'll let our
1:04:53
externals speak first well sh shall I shall I start on on that um so okay so
1:05:00
I'm John Holford uh and um well I began My Life as a we user or not my life but
1:05:06
my working Life as a we user organizer um and I've recently retired um what I suppose no the the the
1:05:16
government does not get it and uh the the the government the government gets
1:05:22
the idea that uh skills are necessary
1:05:28
for uh improving productivity in at work and for the economy and so on it gets
1:05:34
that uh but it it goes from that to the idea that the only the only adult
1:05:42
education worthwhile is uh adult education or
1:05:47
skills training really which is closely related to the needs of the workplace uh and ironically this is
1:05:55
something something which uh which governments have got in the last it's a
1:06:00
kind of mood that has swept over governments in the last 20 or 30 years
1:06:07
uh because prior to that as anybody who's been involved with the we for for
1:06:12
a long well for longer than they should have been uh is uh will know um the
1:06:17
government in the it's up until the 1990s only funded uh the WEA to do
1:06:24
non-vocational work there good great irony it now only funds the anybody to
1:06:30
do vocational work how can we get uh where did that idea come from well
1:06:37
there's lots of places in the in the the world uh and in in the sort of world of
1:06:42
ideology that it comes from um and it's got a grip in uh the corridors of power
1:06:50
particularly in the treasury and so on you could you can trace it well there
1:06:55
big items in that or big examples of that one of them was uh a key one was
1:07:02
about 20 years ago when Gordon Brown blesses heart who had be who let's face
1:07:07
it made a big song and dance about having been a WEA tutor uh during his
1:07:12
early years uh appointed the uh the leech commission uh to essentially say
1:07:21
we need high quality skills uh but we need workplace skills and we got to drive forward that kind of narrow agenda
1:07:29
so somehow we got to um government the the corridors of power
1:07:37
the think tanks the all all the people who who kind of make policy uh and think
1:07:45
broadly about policy and and go to go to dinner parties with other people who talk about policy and so on and so forth
1:07:52
have got to come round to the idea to to broader ideas unfortunately it's very difficult to
1:07:58
break that uh I think not least because one of the yeah not least because
1:08:05
whenever people say money is short they say we mustn't waste money and we
1:08:10
mustn't waste money means we've got to design we've got to make money pay for
1:08:15
exactly what we want it to pay for and not for something else so the idea that money might be spent on uh on other
1:08:23
sorts of adult educ is somehow anema to uh the the powers
1:08:29
that be they don't mind it being spent as as jonath sorry Simon part pointed
1:08:35
out um misspent on hours and hours and hours of bidding for projects that you
1:08:41
don't succeed with you don't succeed in getting um but um they really want uh
1:08:48
money to be SP they really want it to be spent narrowly on what the object the objective is which as Rachel re has it
1:08:56
is making the country more productive which of course is broadly speaking a good thing but
1:09:02
it's not the only way to achieve it no thank thanks John um any any of
1:09:09
the other panel want want to come in on this and then yeah l i I'd like to
1:09:15
briefly if I may I think we've got to tease out differences as well in you know to answer that question does the
1:09:20
government understand I think some of it will um most concerningly uh Simon
1:09:28
pointed out the the still terrible um you know the terrible issue we've got around
1:09:35
lack of various literacies in inverted commas the mosa report in 99 talked
1:09:41
about 7 million that number has not diminished not decreased at all uh in
1:09:46
fact it's you know it's grown very very concerningly uh but sitting alongside of
1:09:52
that I think we've got a real issue for me Jon Jonathan alluded to this but I
1:09:58
just don't think our government is looking at the right skills that we might need for the future whether that be in terms of how you know however
1:10:05
whether it be G GDP although there's a a genuine criticism about using that as as
1:10:10
the only measurement but right through to a more prosperous Progressive
1:10:15
inclusive society and we know that we're going to have to look at new skills for
1:10:21
new ways of doing things whether that be around climate Justice how we manage
1:10:26
artificial intelligence and quite frankly how we manage is very concerning
1:10:31
and I'm using that word uh you know very lightly uh rise of of of populist and
1:10:37
far-right politics uh so those three themes are ones that should be
1:10:42
absolutely exercising us and I think just to conclude and I'm always going to push back on what do we actually mean by
1:10:48
the common good which is one of the titles used in this and I think it's really important it's not
1:10:53
overintellectualizing to say we need to be really clear about what we mean by that and Sharon and I
1:11:00
did write about that in in that Forum Edition so I'm not saying it was because it was a great article but in the past I
1:11:07
think perhaps the common good was a little bit lighter to understand it was a bit
1:11:12
clearer of course it didn't mean there wasn't nuance and was wasn't complicated now it is very complex and I think
1:11:20
people just feel rather overwhelmed uh and the government probably feels rather
1:11:25
overwhelmed but I would like to see it pay very good attention uh to the skills
1:11:31
it will be needed for managing a future which you know is going to be very heavy on AI uh climate Justice and getting
1:11:39
that right and managing poverty and inequality so uh my my response sadly is
1:11:45
I'm not you know some get it right some get it but a lot we've got to have a really clear honest conversation about
1:11:51
the skills we need I think okay yeah should we we I'll come back to you you
1:11:56
know BR we we'll open it up and and get contributions from Shar Jonathan and Ian on maybe the next question that you ask
1:12:03
just finally very very quickly from me on that because we've been engaged in this over the last five years people
1:12:09
remember language is important 20121 big white paper called skills for jobs you
1:12:15
know everybody remembers it called skills for jobs the subtitle was lifelong learning for growth and opportunity but then they narrowed
1:12:22
skills for jobs down to they were only G fun three outcomes for tailored learning
1:12:27
which was get a job get closer to getting a job or if you're somebody with a learning disability increase your
1:12:32
Independence and it was it was strange that you know they're just you know that cohort we campaigned really hard and
1:12:39
worked across the sector we got some tailored learning outcomes around health and well-being around combating
1:12:45
isolation and loneliness around family learning you know so the the department
1:12:51
did listen and did respond and I think you know to his credit in the previous government I think Robert halan did get
1:12:57
it you know in in terms of in the in you know that conservative Administration I think he was you know up against it in
1:13:04
terms of his boss at times but I think Robert did get it if if you fast forward
1:13:09
now and and again the language is interesting the the government's big initiative is skills England I mean they
1:13:15
could have called it lifelong learning England they could have called it a range of things but it does just sort
1:13:21
position it I think so just Builds on on John and Sill's point I think there is a
1:13:26
general level of understanding about the the benefits of of Community Learning but in the hierarchy and the financial
1:13:34
considerations it's very very often bot Rong at the ladder and and forgotten and
1:13:39
it's our job to try and change that sorry Chris I Ed My Prerogative there do you want to move move on to question
1:13:45
another question that's fine um I'm I'm sort of very aware of time and I'm also very aware of some really really good
1:13:51
questions and some really good themes in the chat so I'm going to distill I've got kind of three themes which I I'll
1:13:58
try and fit in in the time remaining so one of them is there's a lot of talk about social prescribing and the health
1:14:04
benefits of learning which are very well established but equally a lot of uh
1:14:09
comments in the chat recognizing the pressure that the Health Service is under and the know the difficulties of
1:14:15
seeing a GP for example so is is there an opportunity in the spending review or
1:14:21
elsewhere to increase social prescribing and health outcomes through through adult
1:14:28
learning Sharon Jonathan Aran do you want do you want first first go yeah
1:14:34
shall I come in then um yes yes I think I think there is um but the step back
1:14:41
for a second it it is um bizarre and annoying that uh that uh one's not
1:14:47
allowed to make the case for um individual well-being you know in his own right and um societ the health of
1:14:54
society and uh communities and civilization itself you only lie to our
1:15:00
argue something if you can show that it's going to give a cash return um and uh it's also ironic because that sort of
1:15:08
um thinking um often doesn't even produce the cash return you know in the
1:15:13
longer term longer term tends to be very shortsighted you know for for successfully for sustainably successful
1:15:21
economy really what you need is you know healthy Society healthy communities heal healthy individuals um so I think those
1:15:29
General points um do need to be made uh although I think we we all need to you know put our thinking caps about what
1:15:35
particular arguments one can make um in addition to those and then then
1:15:41
sometimes it may be you know worth just doing the economic one just to prove that the to prove the the point and the
1:15:47
Centenary commission um had case studies of that where local authorities had spent money on adult education you know
1:15:53
which then does save on health budgets police budgets Community budgets Etc so
1:15:58
I think the economic argument is right and one final point on that I think it
1:16:04
may be possible to get a bit of traction with people to talking about s of inclusive growth you know making the
1:16:10
point that that not just infinite growth on a on a finite planet is you know is
1:16:17
just WR wrong um but also U unbalanced you know un inclusive undemocratic
1:16:23
growth is wrong on anyone's term terms and one way to illustrate it is the
1:16:28
brexit vote because this government you know lost you know the labor party was against brexit and they lost and there's
1:16:35
the famous argument which example which I think is quite useful of the the
1:16:40
politician in I don't know if it was Newcastle somewhere um who who argued
1:16:46
that bre if brexit was voted through it would damage GDP and someone showed today yeah but that's your GDP not ours
1:16:54
so I think that that's quite a powerful argument there's no good just um chasing GDP for its own
1:17:00
sake excellent thank thanks Jonathan do Sharon are in Bernie to come in on this
1:17:06
one or should we see what the next question is and give give you the chance just say one quick thing if I may Simon
1:17:13
just in response to the whole idea of this kind of very individualized Focus which Jonathan's alluded to totally
1:17:19
agree I think one of the things that's coming out and John's mentioned this in the in the chat is for the ESR SRC
1:17:27
project that I'm involved in which is looking at adult participation in learning over the last 25 years is just
1:17:34
how much we get it wrong consistently for communities because they're not
1:17:39
interested primarily particularly those from lower social class backgrounds are
1:17:44
much more interested in community in collective learning and collaboration the very things we used to have in
1:17:51
communities which the wa has been instrumental in of course and and other um structures and bodies such as the one
1:17:57
I used to manage the the CVS Network and we're seeing all of that kind of
1:18:02
demolished so but what people are being offered is individualized approaches and
1:18:07
that's that's something that I would really contest even in the health environment it is much more as Jonathan
1:18:13
said I think about a collaborative space for people to learn I think that's so
1:18:19
crucial just wanted to say that yeah no no thanks Sharon and um we we try get
1:18:25
another question in Chris I think that's right and and without putting extra work on Chris myself ktie I I think what
1:18:31
we'll try and do is take all the comments out in the chat and we we'll try and write something up I think after this and and recirculate around just so
1:18:38
that we capture the range of of views that that we've heard if that's you know Chris is tentatively nodding along so
1:18:45
I'm hoping that's I'm hoping that's not a mad Chief exec idea that we could just we'll we'll have to think about how we
1:18:50
follow up with think to ask Maran if she could record the chat for me so that we've got everybody's brilliant comments
1:18:57
so we don't lose them in The Ether but uh I'm going to squash two themes together which may not quite go together
1:19:04
but just the interest of time so there's some stuff in the chat about losing uh
1:19:09
connections with universities as kind of community assets you know being able to use University facilities or buildings
1:19:17
for adult learning and then elsewhere in the chat there's some discussion about just using community centers better and
1:19:25
kind of obviously pressure on the voluntary sector we're losing those kind of buildings and those venues um so is
1:19:32
there a general question it builds on Sharon's Point really about Community assets more generally how can we bring
1:19:38
Community assets kind of interplay more for the benefit of adult
1:19:45
Learners Ian is is it fair to give you first refusal of this not I'm I'm
1:19:51
thinking about that point that was made before about
1:19:57
um first of all kind of like recognizing where that takes place and I'm thinking of the you know my that previous Point
1:20:05
around um health and around the Arts and so on and that this of course is yet of
1:20:13
course we're talking about issues to do with institutional forms of um of adult
1:20:19
learning within the boundaries of universities or colleges but I think part of the problem The Wider problem is
1:20:27
that it's not just that it's also that logging and recording the informal and
1:20:33
learning that takes place in a range of other settings and I think it's easier to name that than rather than to think
1:20:39
about how you actually record and do that but I think it's
1:20:45
perhaps it's only something that we can do isn't it from the small scale and upwards you know so I'm you know I'm
1:20:52
thinking even like you know within towns with within cities you know if you're
1:20:57
actually wanting to capture that richness um and make visible that
1:21:02
because I don't think that's something also that politicians are actually necessarily aware of so I think it's a
1:21:08
question of definition I mean this does linked back to John holford's earlier point that that there's been a wealth of
1:21:15
research on that and the issue isn't that there isn't hasn't been the research it's that it's not been read
1:21:21
but I mean I'm reminded of that work over 10 years ago more wasn't it around the wider benefits of learning that huge
1:21:28
project that people like John Field and Tom Schuler and others were involved with and that was about learning taking
1:21:37
place in a whole variety of different settings and I think that we need to think about how we
1:21:43
record taking Chris's phrase those Community assets um and that's a sort of a thing
1:21:49
that we've been aware of through the research Circle that that you know it's it's embraced
1:21:55
on the one hand we've had someone like keynote absolutely brilliant from someone like Michael marmar looking at
1:22:00
the picture nationally and internationally right down to kind of neighborhood learning and I think it's
1:22:07
massive challenge as to how we make that visible yeah I don't know that's posing
1:22:14
a dilemma rather than an answer but I think it's something we need to think about yeah well thanks for that and
1:22:20
you've got that asset and obviously that's it's a big part of of the wa's work is is utilizing those Community
1:22:26
assets and making sure actually then that state funding drips down into into those Community assets but I think I
1:22:32
noticed that Jill Jill just put something in the chat long long established sort of wa member and and
1:22:39
and tutor is recognizing that payto pay learning as a Community Asset as well so
1:22:45
you've got the actual Brooks and Marta then you've got the payto pay learning and then you've got the local Shor so
1:22:50
you know that that seeing all of that in the round as as Community assets
1:22:56
community building I think is is a case that you know we will keep making so you know thank you to Jill for for putting
1:23:03
that out there as well any other any other concluding thoughts on this and I'm pushing us
1:23:09
right up to time anybody wanted to come in and then we we're going to close with a poll um of you know just to so that we
1:23:15
get some immediate feedback on this but Chris I don't know do you think that's you think we're right up against it now
1:23:21
in terms of getting the poll done and yeah I think so um uh plus my computer's just about to
1:23:27
reboot as well so he obviously knows it's coming close to half five okay so
1:23:32
yeah maybe the p as I say uh watch this space being the wa website uh for
1:23:39
followup to this which will include by the way links to uh where to get involved in the circles and where to
1:23:45
follow up on Jonathan's references as well yeah good so just before we put the
1:23:51
poll up then can I just a your massive thank you again to Sharon Ian Jonathan
1:23:56
John and Sila for for joining us you know um on the on the panel as well and
1:24:01
thank you to all of you you know I think we had over over 0 people um on the call we'll we'll keep that commitment to
1:24:07
trying to follow up on this either through the website and an email um out
1:24:12
um Marian if if you want to put the poll up now and just as people are are
1:24:18
answering that again just that call to action you know we we have got we're a
1:24:23
membership organization the we you can sign up to be a member for 15 p a year or there's free membership for for
1:24:29
people um who are entitled to that in ter in terms of affordability um and
1:24:34
also this this campaign that we're running up until the the CSR really trying to promote the the economic and
1:24:41
social value of adult learning please have a look at that there'll be there's advocacy packs on our website there's
1:24:48
standard templates and letters that you can use there's a a way of finding out who your local MP is if you if you don't
1:24:55
um quite know who that is given all the changes anything anything you're interested in anything you can do you
1:25:02
know yourself to tell your story to show your support for adult learning I think will will make a massive difference so
1:25:10
thank you for your time we're finishing almost bang on um half five so I'll leave um leave a few more minutes and
1:25:18
then um Maran you close a poll when you think um you need to
1:25:24
thank
1:25:29
you I think the numbers are still going up a little but hopefully we're nearly done with the
1:25:38
poll some very kind comments in the chat as well thanks I'm glad glad people uh
1:25:44
enjoyed it one of the things we miss on uh Zoom calls is the opportunity for
1:25:52
informal chat that you get after a face-to-face class I don't know whe
1:25:58
there are ways of uh I thought perhaps Simon that you were suggesting that we stayed online to have a Nat with each
1:26:04
other informally and um maybe that would be a good
1:26:09
idea I yeah I I personally can't stay you know I've got another commitment um
1:26:16
but I don't I don't know I'm again Maran do we do we leave the zoom room open for
1:26:21
for anybody that wants to stay on for a little bit extra I've not got a problem with that if you think we can do that yes we can do that
1:26:28
that's fine yeah I mean yeah go on my laptop despite giving me ominous
1:26:34
warning still appears to be working so uh I can stay around for another 10 minutes or so if people are wanty thank
1:26:42
thank you okay everyone well in with that in mind then apologies to run run out on you I I've got a personal
1:26:48
commitment I'm going I'm going to pick my wife up from work and and I better be on time so thank you you know really
1:26:54
really enjoyed it this afternoon and and I look forward to to seeing any number of you again shortly so thank you very
1:27:00
much
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